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Post by Basse on May 10, 2008 13:55:03 GMT
No, this is not to ask if you know when it's going to be released This pointless thread holds the question; have you seen the Sabato Lives prologue? And that's about it.
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Post by Julius CMXCIX on May 10, 2008 14:44:57 GMT
Yes, and the whole thing has been released if you know where to look...
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Post by Basse on May 10, 2008 20:08:33 GMT
And where is that pray tell?
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Post by Julius CMXCIX on May 10, 2008 20:50:20 GMT
It's held in a triple padlocked safe guarded by an elite SAS squad, on the opposite side of a rope bridge across a canyon of lava in the depths of a secret MI6 complex in the Gobi Desert. I was just kidding with you. Hope I haven't majorly disappointed anyone.
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Post by Basse on May 10, 2008 21:35:48 GMT
As I supposed. I really hope it'll be finished some day. BJ dropping in at AoKH for once would be a start
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Post by Julius CMXCIX on May 10, 2008 21:41:08 GMT
How could I resist though? Next time I use this joke I'm going to go on and on for ages about all the amazing new features, riveting gameplay, how it is without doubt the best campaign ever to grace AoK and "totally worth the wait". Alternatively I'll sabotage BJ's (unfortunate initials there) reputation by calling it short, rushed and over-hyped. EDIT: I wondered for a second when I saw the face whether you were getting hopeful.
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Post by Basse on May 10, 2008 21:49:30 GMT
It would make a great April Fools joke if BJ was to return and "release" it next year. I'm always hopeful, but only an official post from BJ's side, one not on April 1st, would convince me SL's actually close to finished
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Post by Julius CMXCIX on May 10, 2008 22:01:22 GMT
Next year I'm going to do all my April Fool jokes on March the 19th so no one guesses.
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Post by Mashek on May 10, 2008 23:26:02 GMT
Well, for starters, it'd be good if BJ were arround. Apparently he is alive and well, but he's a moron for not leaving a note or saying his goodbyes.
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Post by Julius CMXCIX on May 11, 2008 10:48:54 GMT
Actually, there seems to be a shortage of high quality designers at AoKH full stop. Where are the olivers and newIdeas and Lance O Lots and dave_earls?
Maybe we should post some project threads to boost interest a little? We might never finish them, but look at what L&T did.
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Andan
Stormwind Member
Andan
Attempting to design a scenario
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Post by Andan on May 12, 2008 1:02:51 GMT
You shouldn't hesitate to do that, even though as a result the SD forum would be crowded with our each of our members' project thread.
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Matt
Stormwind Member
The Come And Go Man
Monsieur Mercredi
Posts: 1,812
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Post by Matt on May 12, 2008 3:03:25 GMT
Actually, there seems to be a shortage of high quality designers at AoKH full stop. Where are the olivers and newIdeas and Lance O Lots and dave_earls? Maybe we should post some project threads to boost interest a little? We might never finish them, but look at what L&T did. Why do I feel people are looking at me for being so secretive? Actually my main reason is that I have a terrible track record of finishing things, but even worse I will finish stuff and then hate it too much for others to see it. So the odds of people seeing my stuff are minimal. I may get around to posting a thread at AoKH when I am around half done (HOPEFULLY mid June). And I have seen the prologue. Now I am going to say something unpopular: I don't think BJ was particularly great, in fact I think he was downright overrated. Sabato the witch isn't very good at all, there are a thousand like it around. Sabato returns is amazing for the fact it is the only campaign that has 3 in 1, but other than that I don't get moved at all by it. The story is good but not gripping, the music is annoying, The dialogue is decent, the gameplay is solid. With AoKH's generous system I would still score it a 5 and consider it a great design, but I don't see it in the top class. I know some people think it is the best campaign ever, I just don't see it. Ulio made me think, I still years after playing it think about it all the time. Other campaigns that left a real impression include Chila (oliver), Tannenburg and Towton (Crnigoj), Crusade:the beginning (Sceletar), and ATW(Luke). So for me those are my top designers. Another thing is replay value. I must have watched Chila about 20 times. There is so much in that 10 minutes it is unbelievable.
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Post by Mashek on May 12, 2008 3:38:15 GMT
You seem to have very similar tastes and opinions to me, regarding designs, Matt. I actually plan to post a project thread sometime soon for TfBtK - some final playtesting. Also Julius, due to time and work I think we'll have to give Kraken Wood up - sorry that I never got around to sending it. And to keep on-topic, yes I had come across BJ's latest cut-scene some time ago. It seemed pretty good, but really, it doesn't seem to hold my attention as say, Immortal Prey does. Now there's a project really worth salivating over.
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Post by Julius CMXCIX on May 12, 2008 7:02:27 GMT
Paranoia. We're all guilty. No problem Mash, just get on with the PTC. Matty, you've been spoilt by more recent designs. The first thing I downloaded was The Quest and I thought it was amazing.
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Von
Stormwind Member
VonCorgev
Vene, Vidi, Verse.
Posts: 818
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Post by Von on May 12, 2008 11:11:12 GMT
Don't worry Matty, you're not the only one.
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Post by Basse on May 12, 2008 14:56:01 GMT
I, on the other hand, think Sabato Returns is the best campaign ever made, followed by Ulio. Not only is it a great and humorous campaign, although Ulio is better in many aspects, but it's the one campaign that has inspired me the most, and still does today. The style of gameplay and story invites to using you imagination and the music is some of the most suiting I've ever seen. Ulio is a marvelous campaign, much deeper and darker than Sabato, and even if it has a special spot in my memory, Sabato Returns was the campaign that made me interested in making scenarios for the public and improving my back then horrible designs. It inspired me to create the Kerokato campaign, A Dream of Conquest and many more, and it still inspires me nowadays in Gwyndlegard and my weird sense of humour that infects all of my scenarios
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Matt
Stormwind Member
The Come And Go Man
Monsieur Mercredi
Posts: 1,812
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Post by Matt on May 12, 2008 20:53:35 GMT
Paranoia. We're all guilty. No problem Mash, just get on with the PTC. Matty, you've been spoilt by more recent designs. The first thing I downloaded was The Quest and I thought it was amazing. See I like the quest better than Sabato. It is very simple, but it still makes an impression of sorts on you. To be honest, all I remember about Sabato was the play as evil part; the other 2 are very forgettable. Even the play as evil part only really interested me for short spurts. I wouldn't say I am spoiled, although that could very well be true. One of my favorite campaigns is The Last Viking Prince, which was made before TC. I guess it is a certain style I like best.
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Post by Julius CMXCIX on May 12, 2008 21:45:30 GMT
I never liked Gordon Farrell's stuff much, so I guess it is a matter of taste. I was probably jumping to conclusions a little, because Jatayu has this thing about older campaigns (eg The Quest) and sometimes says old designers were over-rated. We'll have to have it out with him about The Quest though, when he gets back.
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Post by jon. on May 12, 2008 23:04:03 GMT
I'm going to have to say that I liked Gordon's work, but I wasn't too crazy over it.
Hmm... The King's Best Man > Sabato Returns > The Quest > Sabato the Witch
Then again, I'm a very spoiled AoKer (first maps downloaded were probably TKBM, Cupid's Poisoned Arrows, and Sabato Returns)
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Von
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VonCorgev
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Posts: 818
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Post by Von on May 13, 2008 8:14:01 GMT
The very first thing I downloaded was Sceletar's The War of Troy.
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Jatayu
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Jatayu
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Post by Jatayu on May 13, 2008 13:48:45 GMT
Actually, there seems to be a shortage of high quality designers at AoKH full stop. Where are the olivers and newIdeas and Lance O Lots and dave_earls? They joined Tsunami Studios ;D Mmmph. It was slightly better than Aok's Joan of Arc 1st scenario but that's about it. I think Ulio is overrated too. I mean the story is not original, in fact a complete copy of Oedipus Rex if you know what that is. Also it is way too 'fitting' for Aok.. That is the sort of campaign Aok is supposed to have, as opposed to pretty much any other classic campaign, for eg. Sabato Returns. Actually I think Ulio and SR have been surpassed quite long ago, IMO. Most of last years best stuff was around the same quality. As for the prologue, I saw it long ago, is there anything new?
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Andan
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Andan
Attempting to design a scenario
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Post by Andan on May 14, 2008 2:40:12 GMT
They'll soon be replaced by Julius999s, Jatayus, Masheks, Lord Basses, VonCorgaths, Matty12345s, and Turtys.
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Post by Julius CMXCIX on May 14, 2008 8:24:23 GMT
Run for the hills! I notice you omitted yourself from that list.
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Von
Stormwind Member
VonCorgev
Vene, Vidi, Verse.
Posts: 818
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Post by Von on May 14, 2008 9:39:36 GMT
Fixed.
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Post by Basse on May 14, 2008 15:21:03 GMT
Don't be so overly humble Andan, you fit in that list just as much as the others of us
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Post by Julius CMXCIX on May 14, 2008 20:21:32 GMT
The story was a good one in the first place, and has been considerably adapted. Also, it's as much in the telling and quality as a game that it excels as with the story.
I agree here, but in general people don't want to accept that they have been bettered. In my opinion, if WTWB had been a complete story it would have been the best ever release.
An observation: There is way too much of a gap between 4.6/4.7 and 5.0. I for one have a number in the mid to high fours, but the effort needed to move from there to 5.0 is absolutely ridiculous. Everyone is much too stingy with the scoring, Jatayu is right when he says The Quest wouldn't get a 5 today, but in my opinion it would deserve to be right up there at about 4.8. There should be more room at the top than there is, we only have a range of 5 marks and yet we knock scores down by 20% for silly things like typos.
I'm partly guilty for this, with my harsh reviewing (see The Prophecy) but I'm only trying to go along with general opinion and standards (I also like to be cagey with my praise in any case). We really shouldn't expect what we do with new scenarios, in my opinion at least. Thoughts?
What I would most propose though, is a scoring system like the one at AoEH. There you can give scores like 4.7 for balance, which seems much fairer to me rather than immediately knocking down to 4 dead.
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Matt
Stormwind Member
The Come And Go Man
Monsieur Mercredi
Posts: 1,812
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Post by Matt on May 14, 2008 21:16:58 GMT
The story was a good one in the first place, and has been considerably adapted. Also, it's as much in the telling and quality as a game that it excels as with the story. I agree here, but in general people don't want to accept that they have been bettered. In my opinion, if WTWB had been a complete story it would have been the best ever release. An observation: There is way too much of a gap between 4.6/4.7 and 5.0. I for one have a number in the mid to high fours, but the effort needed to move from there to 5.0 is absolutely ridiculous. Everyone is much too stingy with the scoring, Jatayu is right when he says The Quest wouldn't get a 5 today, but in my opinion it would deserve to be right up there at about 4.8. There should be more room at the top than there is, we only have a range of 5 marks and yet we knock scores down by 20% for silly things like typos. I'm partly guilty for this, with my harsh reviewing (see The Prophecy) but I'm only trying to go along with general opinion and standards (I also like to be cagey with my praise in any case). We really shouldn't expect what we do with new scenarios, in my opinion at least. Thoughts? What I would most propose though, is a scoring system like the one at AoEH. There you can give scores like 4.7 for balance, which seems much fairer to me rather than immediately knocking down to 4 dead. Actually if you don't mind, I would like to confront (ooh sounds nasty) you with something. I think you are a little contradictory. You always say how good the quest is, how it should still get scored high, yet of all reviewers I think you have raised the standard the most. You need to pick a side here I personally agree with your harsh reviewing side. Times change, so does expectations. The quest if released today would probably still get around 4.8 or so by blacksmith standards. But lets say it was called "A Quest" instead of "the quest", and was released by some nobody (howabout hailstorm65? first name that jumped into my head). if I was really harsh (or You in this case: Playability-> 4. It is fun but haven't we seen this journey kill bad guys along the way thing a lot? this one isn't that much better than the others, and there aren't any cool objectives to set gameplay above average by much. Balance-> 5 (flawless here) Creativity-> 3 Standard gameplay, few tricks, average story, basic in every way. Map-> 4 better than random, but totally lacking in advanced technigues lke terrain mixing. Story-> 4, aren't there a thousand "hero saves the kingdom from big bad dude stories?" Now none of that review was true back in the day. But a 4.0 would be exactly what Julius999 would rate "a quest" by Hailstorm65. Agree? Probably overstated it a touch, but curious to hear how you rationalize both sides of yourself
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Jatayu
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Jatayu
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Post by Jatayu on May 14, 2008 22:22:06 GMT
My thoughts about 'the Quest' exactly, and I might actually do a review like that if Tanneur wasn't screwing around with rules and guidelines.
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Post by Mashek on May 15, 2008 4:59:26 GMT
It is unethical though Jatayu, to review a several-year-old scenario based on today's standards. Back in its time, the Quest was a masterpiece and still has excellent gameplay.
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Post by Julius CMXCIX on May 15, 2008 7:09:31 GMT
Doublethink. There or thereabouts, yes (creativity would not be a 3 though, have you seen both endings?). With The Quest however I'd have to give allowances for it being the very first "good" scenario. My reasoning is that while we have these standards, I'm going to review this harshly. I am certainly not someone who is going to be the nicest reviewer ever, that's not my nature, but I don't actually think everyone's high expectations are a good thing. Like I said, giving decimal point ratings would make it easier to avoid blank 5s without going straight to 4s (which people have to do for even minor errors). Also, you will see that I gave a 5 to WTWB while others did not, I am always against knocking down the score for tiny reasons (eg being harsh for its own sake). It's that WTWB didn't have 5 stars already that demonstrates ludicrously high expectations. The Prophecy on the other hand had enough flaws to deserve my treatment, in my opinion. I don't really understand why it was so popular.
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