Jatayu
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Jatayu
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Post by Jatayu on Jul 18, 2008 22:33:09 GMT
Was just wondering, how many of you would be interested in this idea? It's basically that the triggers would be represented by a script, so you could convert from script to trigger and vice versa. It would make trigger copying and stuff easier.
I was earlier thinking of making it as in extension to trigger studio but that thing is a real mess to compile and even Digit doesn't remember since he moved to linux a while ago. So it would be standalone.
To give an example, a trigger would look like this
<trigger> <condition> <type>object_selected</type> <object-id>144</object-id> </condition> <effect> <type>Display_instructions</type> <text>Hi</type> </effect> </trigger>
Or something of the sort. What do you think.
N.B. I haven't started working on this, it's just an idea.
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Post by Julius CMXCIX on Jul 19, 2008 13:32:02 GMT
It would be excellent.
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Jatayu
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Jatayu
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Post by Jatayu on Jul 19, 2008 16:48:37 GMT
If you notice, the format above is xml. I was wondering if non-programmers would find that easy to use or something else.
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Post by Julius CMXCIX on Jul 19, 2008 20:09:11 GMT
I don't know what xml is, but the way you set it out looks intuitive.
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Jatayu
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Jatayu
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Post by Jatayu on Jul 20, 2008 1:24:08 GMT
xml format is 'supposed' to be self explanatory, but I thought non-programmers might think otherwise I will start on it in a while.
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Post by jon. on Jul 20, 2008 21:58:16 GMT
Easier for copying triggers without having to wait for options to scroll?
In theory, this would be faster than Trigger Studio. I say go for it.
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Von
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VonCorgev
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Post by Von on Jul 24, 2008 12:10:36 GMT
I like this idea! The only thing I'm a little confused with, is how the triggers are placed into the .scx or would it be done in a similar way to Trigger Studio?
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Matt
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Post by Matt on Jul 24, 2008 14:50:48 GMT
For some odd reason I missed this, but if you make this well, I will carve a statue of you No seriously make this.
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Jatayu
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Jatayu
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Post by Jatayu on Jul 24, 2008 17:20:02 GMT
yeah.
I will reinstall Windows and see if I can get that damned AOKTS to compile, that will save me a load of time.
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Jatayu
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Jatayu
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Post by Jatayu on Aug 31, 2008 7:19:50 GMT
I think I will start on this today Edit: I have been doing this for a while. The scx format is HORRIBLY screwed up. Far worse than the slp. Thankfully I'm only doing the triggers.
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Jatayu
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Jatayu
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Post by Jatayu on Sept 7, 2008 17:24:57 GMT
I haven't actually worked on this for a while but I'll definitely need playtesters. So please sign up
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Post by Julius CMXCIX on Sept 7, 2008 17:31:06 GMT
I'll give it a go.
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Jatayu
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Post by Jatayu on Sept 8, 2008 8:11:48 GMT
Ok, you're in ;D My testing is a little different in the sense that I won't be sending you anything to test for a while ( will be far more effectively done by myself ), but asking for suggestions and hints as to how this would be most useful.
Oh , and I suppose you could move it to the works in progress section.
One thing I'm worried about, wouldn't it be excessively long and bulky, especially for 100's of triggers?
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Jatayu
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Jatayu
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Post by Jatayu on Sept 8, 2008 11:14:04 GMT
Ok, here's a preliminary test for the first trigger of Atlantis
<scenario> <numtriggers>722</numtriggers> <trigger> <enabled>true</enabled> <looping>false</looping> <objective>false</objective> <desc_order>0</desc_order> <desc_len>0</desc_len> <description></description> <name_length>21</name_length> <name>removing bridges etc </name> <num_effects>false</num_effects> <effect> <type>15</type> <check>23</check> <ai_goal>-1</ai_goal> <amount>-1</amount> <resource>-1</resource> <diplomacy>-1</diplomacy> <num_selected>-1</num_selected> <location_unit>-1</location_unit> <unit_type>609</unit_type> <player_source>4</player_source> <player_target>-1</player_target> <technology>-1</technology> <stringid>-1</stringid> <eff_unknown>15</eff_unknown> <display_time>15</display_time> <location>-1,-1</location> <area_ll>-1,-1</area_ll> <area_ur>-1,-1</area_ur> <unit_group>-1</unit_group> <building_type>-1</building_type> <instruction_panel>-1</instruction_panel> </effect> ... </trigger> </scenario>
The first effect is of type 15 ( kill objects ) and killing unit 609 ( bridges ). All the rest is useless material ( -1's ).
Would it be better to remove all the fields that have a default value so as to clear up the clutter?
However a person might want to change the trigger completely, like from 'kill object' to 'display instructions', then he would have to fill in other fields.
On another note, there is apparently an 'unknown' effect and another effect called 'flash objects'- is that one in Aok or SWGB? I don't think so..
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Post by Julius CMXCIX on Sept 8, 2008 14:55:46 GMT
Yes, anything to make it as simple as possible.
To be honest I see the main purpose of this as to copy triggers rather than create new ones from scratch so as long as it's clear what each value is it's best just to keep it simple.
In AoKTS there are a few things that are options but actually crash AoK, "snap view" effect is one of them. It's probably like that.
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Jatayu
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Post by Jatayu on Sept 8, 2008 15:22:13 GMT
Ok, I made it as simple as possible now.
As I see it, the main purpose of this is not to copy triggers -AokTS already does that. The point is to copy triggers in a 'smart' way.
For example <trigger> <enabled>false</enabled> <looping>false</looping> <objective>false</objective> <desc_order>0</desc_order> <condition> <type>10</type> <timer>3</timer> <cond_unknown>-1</cond_unknown> </condition> <effect> <type>Create Object</type> <unit_type>608</unit_type> <player_source>2</player_source> <eff_unknown>11</eff_unknown> <location>148,95</location> </effect> <effect> <type>Create Object</type> <unit_type>608</unit_type> <player_source>2</player_source> <eff_unknown>11</eff_unknown> <location>148,93</location> </effect>
As you can see this creates object 608 (bridge tops ) at locations 148,95 and 148,93. You can easily copy this effect 10 times changing the locations slightly.
This kind of thing is hard to do in AokTS because you have to point, click, etc.
Do you think editing triggers (not copying ) is somewhat painful in Aokts?
Edit: never mind the unknowns.
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Post by Julius CMXCIX on Sept 8, 2008 15:25:15 GMT
This is entirely what I was getting at. I want a way of making lots of similar triggers quickly. Well actually I don't, but that's where I see the main use for this.
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Jatayu
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Post by Jatayu on Sept 9, 2008 5:24:37 GMT
Well yes, put it this way, suppose you wanted to create ( using triggers ) an army of 50 paladins. You could do that in a single trigger, copying an effect and changing the location by one tile in each.
Similarly if you want to make a dozen dialogue triggers, each linking to the next, this would be a lot faster than selecting each trigger and creating effects etc.
I have finished the reading part and working on the writing part of it.
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Jatayu
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Jatayu
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Post by Jatayu on Sept 9, 2008 16:02:15 GMT
Hey erm, can you move this to the public SD forum 'cos sly_guy wants to have a look at it.
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Post by sly guy on Sept 10, 2008 19:31:09 GMT
This is looking wonderful, Jatayu. Like VonCorgath, I'm wondering how this would be written into the .scx. I take it that it would be something similar to your SLP reader, only it would search through the scx, find the trigger "section", and then modify it? The only problem I see with it is that the end user likely wouldn't know how the conditions and effects are structured within the trigger. I guess what I mean is that the user probably wouldn't know what number to put in the <type> tags. Then again, if the main use of it is (as you've said) to smartly copy triggers, then it shouldn't be too much of a problem, since the main things the user would be changing would likely be the location or the unit type (and perhaps the player source on occasion), all of which are easily identifiable. And a big thank-you to whomever moved this. (I'm guessing it was Julius?)
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Jatayu
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Post by Jatayu on Sept 11, 2008 5:10:04 GMT
Oh, don't worry it will be a lot more user friendly than now What about MWS ?
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Post by sly guy on Sept 11, 2008 5:51:00 GMT
Don't worry, Jatayu, I'm working on it.
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Jatayu
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Jatayu
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Post by Jatayu on Sept 20, 2008 3:05:08 GMT
I'm again putting this on major hold for the time being- perhaps till next year. I have TONS of real life things to do this semester.
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Post by Luke Gevaerts on Sept 20, 2008 20:10:18 GMT
Jatayu, what can I do to convince you that this tool is going to steal the light of day away from every other tool ever made - including your very own MWS? Seriously, this is like the Holy Grail of designing. If I didn't hate purism so much, I'd say I'd go back to vanilla designing if I had access to this.
Honestly, name your wishes and I'll move Heaven and earth to grant them.
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Jatayu
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Jatayu
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Post by Jatayu on Sept 21, 2008 4:16:39 GMT
Hey Luke, nice to see you here.Want to join the team? Thanks for the encouraging words, but it'll be at least a month before I can get anything moving on this. Unless you convince Digit to make it. Or learn some code and try doing it yourself..
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Jatayu
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Jatayu
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Post by Jatayu on Nov 14, 2008 7:30:27 GMT
I decided to revive this. It's getting on, and should be done by the end of the year
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Post by Luke Gevaerts on Dec 8, 2008 9:20:33 GMT
Hey Jatayu, you still working on this? I might be able to cut a deal with the devil and sell my soul for this tool, you know?
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Jatayu
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Jatayu
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Post by Jatayu on Dec 10, 2008 6:13:29 GMT
It's been in cold storage for a month and a half. It is nearly done though ( about 70% I'd say ) so I'll definitely finish this sometime this month.
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Jatayu
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Jatayu
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Post by Jatayu on Feb 23, 2009 17:48:56 GMT
OK folks, I am really going to finish it this time. Just re-started and spent some time over it, it's mostly done.
On another note DiGiT's documentation of the scx format is really inaccurate. I suppose he did better programming than documentation. ( I'm really fortunate I have it unlike DiGiT who had to spend months figuring it out ).
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Jatayu
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Jatayu
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Post by Jatayu on Feb 23, 2009 18:48:50 GMT
I need some inputs from you guys...
Apart from triggers, is there anything you would like to see text based
Eg. a 2 D grid for the map
or coordinates and starting frames for every unit, things like that?
Or it wouldn't be worth the bother?
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