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Books!
Dec 17, 2019 17:38:04 GMT
Post by Basse on Dec 17, 2019 17:38:04 GMT
Since the plebeians in the Town's Crier apparently do not read, I will post this thread here instead. Books! Discuss. I find myself reading a lot less than I would like to, and I know I am far from alone in this. I have a pile of twenty or so books that I have bought or received as gifts which I still have to start reading. This year has been an improvement, but I have still only finished 11 books in total; half of what I read in 2014 (yes, I keep track ). Lately I have been getting back on track, though, and most days I try to read at least one chapter of whatever book I'm currently reading. My latest conquests: A Choice of Gods by Clifford D. Simak. Simak is one of those half-forgotten early sci-fi masters, always in the shadow of Asimov, Clarke, Heinlein et al. As far as I know, "City" is his most widely read work, and the only one I had read before I picked up this book. Between the two, "City" is the superior book, although the two share many similar themes. The abandonment of the Earth by humanity, a kind of idealization of the rural homestead passed down through generations, and a scepticism of technology's impact on the world - and, more importantly, the human spirit. "A Choice of Gods" focuses a lot more on this than it does on fantastical worlds or gadgets, even though humanoid robots feature prominently throughout the story. The fantastical world in this book is the Earth, rid of most of its human population, returned to a more natural state. It also features a robot who sees it as its main mission to preserve and continue the practice of Christianity, even when humanity has largely abandoned it, which is an interesting concept. Ultimately the book often just touches on its themes, and when it tries to delve more deeply into them, it does so in page-long introspections which are only interesting if you're already well invested in the book (and even then it sometimes drags). Still, it is a pretty quick read and it has a unique atmosphere. Dangerous Visions by various authors, edited by Harlan Ellison A sci-fi classic from 1969 (you can tell what kind of books I've been focusing on lately ). This is a collection of short stories from some promiment authors, and a ton who have since fallen into obscurity - some deservedly so. The stories range from entertaining to downright awful, but most of the time they are at least interesting. Some stories of note: a J.G. Ballard story that barely qualifies as SF but still remains one of the best of the bunch; a story about a mentally deranged woman who hides under her neighbour's bed, sees him undress and finds out that he has nothing down there... and that's about it; some Jack the Ripper torture porn... IN THE FUTURE!; a story whose title I can't recall, but it might as well have been called Looking for Planet Incest... yeah, it's very much a product of its time; and, finally, there is a "short story" that takes up a hundred bloody pages, and it's literally just an acid trip committed to paper. So, a lot of interesting stories; only a few of them are good, but even the duds usually don't feel like a complete waste of time. Except the acid trip one. That one is just pure garbage. The Eye of the World by Robert Jordan, aka The Wheel of Time Part 1 I have only gotten about 200 pages in, which is like barely the intro of this monstrosity of a series. Pretty good so far, though! The writing is a lot more accessible than I first imagined, not having read much fantasy at all, although the first chapter was a slog. Some bits of dialogue feel very 90'ies. What books have you been reading lately? What books would you like to read?
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Books!
Dec 17, 2019 22:09:50 GMT
Post by Julius CMXCIX on Dec 17, 2019 22:09:50 GMT
I don't read much fiction these days. However, two books I read this year are Titus Groan and its sequel Gormenghast. They are fantasy novels written in the mid-twentieth century, but they are very different to Tolkien. All the characters are human and there is no magic. They're interesting reads, although they require some patience.
My favourite books are probably Catch 22 by Joseph Heller and Three Men In A Boat by Jerome K Jerome. I think the latter of these is available free of charge online, and it's eminently readable so I especially recommend giving it a try.
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Books!
Dec 17, 2019 22:27:10 GMT
Post by Basse on Dec 17, 2019 22:27:10 GMT
Had a quick look at the Wikipedia page for "Titus Groan" and it undoubtedly sounds very interesting. Might give that one a read! I read Catch 22 many years ago, although I am not entirely sure I finished the whole thing. I did enjoy the humour and depiction of the madness of war. I have recently started on another Clifford Simak novel, called "A Heritage of Stars". It seems like his novels have a huge variation in terms of quality. "City" was a breeze, "A Choice of Gods" was very compact and effective, while this one is a bit of a drag from the get-go. I do still enjoy the concepts, though, so I don't think I will have much trouble powering through though; I have another 5 books by him in my reading pile, so I better.
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Books!
Dec 17, 2019 22:41:15 GMT
Post by Julius CMXCIX on Dec 17, 2019 22:41:15 GMT
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Books!
Dec 17, 2019 22:49:03 GMT
Post by Basse on Dec 17, 2019 22:49:03 GMT
I'm a few paragraphs in and already enjoying it quite a lot. Definitely going to pick up and read the full book at some point!
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Books!
Dec 18, 2019 1:09:04 GMT
Post by HockeySam18 on Dec 18, 2019 1:09:04 GMT
While I had some free time this past summer, I binge-read a ton of the Old Norse sagas and Eddic poems (the latter in the original Old Norse text, albeit normalized). I really enjoy the simple and direct yet poignant nature of the prose text while the poetry in its original language is gorgeous to read (and better still read aloud). As sagas go, the Saga of Hervǫr and Heiðrekr is one of my favorites of the less well-known ones, but Egil's Saga, Njál's Saga, and Vǫlsunga Saga are some more common ones that are among the best.
I also read The Fall of Gondolin roughly a year ago. Fascinating to see the evolution of a story over such a long period of time.
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Books!
Dec 18, 2019 23:42:16 GMT
Post by Julius CMXCIX on Dec 18, 2019 23:42:16 GMT
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Matt
Stormwind Member
The Come And Go Man
Monsieur Mercredi
Posts: 1,811
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Books!
Dec 19, 2019 1:10:01 GMT
Post by Matt on Dec 19, 2019 1:10:01 GMT
I used to read something like 30 books a year. Alas these days the number is greatly diminished, though I still try to find time for the odd book.
Of the titles mentioned in this thread, itead the fall of gondolin, though perhaps it is just me but I didn't find much joy in it. The Children of Hurin was a more complete novel, and Beren and Luthien much less so but still an interesting academic read, but Gondolin is the most incomplete of his works and I guess needed to be published the least. I liked it, but in a way that very few people but the biggest Tolkien nerds would.
I have read the entire Wheel of Time, which is an astonishing time commitment that now seems unthinkable to me, but I once was unemployed many years ago and free time was no factor. If I had to wager I would say the entire series is some 4 million words, of which at least half are less than necessary. It's decidedly not a work of our politically correct time, with very distinct genders and gender divides, and it can be a bit cringeworthy on occasion. But when Jordan was at his best his stuff was truly captivating, like 100 pages without a breath captivating.
I don't read much fantasy these days, the genre is very copycat and long-winded and I have a very short list of authors I still follow. Joe Abercrombie is still on that list. I am currently reading his latest book, A Little Hatred. To be honest he still blows Martin and just about everyone else away. The snark, the grit, the clever dialogue, all still there. He makes you think deeply without telling you what to think, which is rare these days.
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Matt
Stormwind Member
The Come And Go Man
Monsieur Mercredi
Posts: 1,811
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Books!
Dec 19, 2019 1:25:37 GMT
Post by Matt on Dec 19, 2019 1:25:37 GMT
Speaking of fantasy, fantasy books I recommend to everyone, all the time:
American Gods
The Long Price Quartet - fantasy for people who hate fantasy. Thought provoking and just all around well written. Probably my go to weird recommendation.
All things by Abercrombie
Lies of Locke Lamora. Dickens meets Conan Doyle by way of Tolkien.
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Books!
Dec 19, 2019 1:54:52 GMT
Post by Basse on Dec 19, 2019 1:54:52 GMT
I have to say that I still share the authour's 19th century mindset and find those china dogs pretty ugly and boring. The only Tolkien book I have read is Bilbo, still to this day. I do intend to at least start LOTR next year, though. It's one of those reading projects I've always wanted to do, but never really felt like starting, especially since I've heard that the writing style, particularly early on, is pretty heavy. As for the Wheel of Time, right now I am very much in doubt that I will ever finish the whole series. The first book so far is pretty good, but I have yet to find myself devouring it. I'm still going to give it a fair chance, though. The parts that might be politically incorrect today don't really bother me at all. It's more the occasional lines of dialogue that feel very cheesy and overdone, which perhaps they weren't in the 90's. Like Egwene rolling her eyes and running off while shouting "Men!". I dunno, little things like that kind of take me out of the experience. I have never really read much fantasy. In later years I have worked my way through A Song of Ice and Fire, which I enjoyed a lot (in large part because of how it breaks many fantasy clichés), and I remember reading a re-reading The Neverending Story many times when I was younger. And then there's Harry Potter, of course. But I think that about covers the fantasy books I have read. I've found myself more drawn to classic sci-fi, even though the things I write veer much closer to fantasy than the hard-boiled, science-focused stories of classic SF. I've read most of the major works by Heinlein and Clarke as well as the original Foundation trilogy. J.G. Ballard is another author I really like reading. Or, rather, I find his stories very interesing, if not always that very fun to read. The Crystal World and The Drowned World are both books that have stayed with me, even though I never once wanted to read more than 1-2 chapters at a time. He has a fantastic way of building (post-)apocalyptic worlds and exploring the effect they have on the mind of his characters. Very inreresting stuff. I read American Gods several years ago, when I was working my way through Neil Gaiman's books. Some very interesting ideas in there, and the story just flows in that typical Gaiman fashion. Not my favourite of his books, though. That would probably be Stardust. I find that I like his shorter novels better than the longer epics, as he has a way of writing pretty meandering plots.
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Books!
Dec 19, 2019 2:48:10 GMT
Post by Basse on Dec 19, 2019 2:48:10 GMT
Some recommendations: "The City and the Stars", by Arthur C. Clarke. Probably my favourite sci-fi novel. "The Drought", by J.G. Ballard. The easiest read of the books I've read by him. Again explores the effect of an apocalyptic scenario on a cast of increasingly crazed characters. "River of Ink", by a certain Paul M.M. Cooper, a name which might ring a bell. "Lost Horizon", by James Hilton. A classic, philosophical adventure novel. The main inspiration for my latest PTC entry, incidentally. "Journey to the Center of the Earth", by Jules Verne. Probably my favourite Verne novel, one I have read at least three times, maybe more.
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Books!
Dec 19, 2019 13:42:37 GMT
Post by HockeySam18 on Dec 19, 2019 13:42:37 GMT
This sums it up pretty well. The Fall of Gondolin reads like a philologist's analysis of a manuscript stemma - interesting from an academic perspective, but from a literary one far less so. Beren and Lúthien was in a similar vein, but most interesting to me owing to his attempts to tell the story in verse, which resounds particularly much with me owing to the material that I study.
The Children of Húrin, to me, stands toe to toe with the central works of the canon. It is considerably more tragic, and also contains perhaps more discernible direct analogues with the Anglo-Saxon and Old Norse material that he studied (this is true of the Silmarillion in general), which makes it feel somewhat less authentic than LotR and The Hobbit...but even so, it is a literary masterpiece that does his world credit.
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Books!
Dec 20, 2019 15:22:11 GMT
Post by Basse on Dec 20, 2019 15:22:11 GMT
I may have asked this sometime before, but have you read Neil Gaiman's "Norse Mythology" Sam? And if so, what did you think about it?
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Books!
Dec 20, 2019 15:40:01 GMT
Post by HockeySam18 on Dec 20, 2019 15:40:01 GMT
Matt recommended it to me a few weeks ago, but I have not acquired it yet. It's on the list for sure!
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Books!
Dec 20, 2019 16:01:45 GMT
Post by Basse on Dec 20, 2019 16:01:45 GMT
Nice! I read it a year ago or so, and it is a very interesting read. I don't know much about the source material, but he manages to retell a lot of stories in a very vivid way. Very much worth a read!
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Books!
Dec 20, 2019 18:10:54 GMT
Post by HockeySam18 on Dec 20, 2019 18:10:54 GMT
I read a few reviews and my interest is further piqued. The popular conception of Norse mythology revolves heavily around Snorri Sturluson's Prose Edda, with which there are a lot of problems (Snorri basically tried to reinterpret Old Norse mythology in a Christian context to reconcile it with his 13th century present) and to a lesser degree a handful of the Eddic poems that we know, which is only a fraction of the picture--but it seems like Gaiman has at least looked deeply into some of the source material.
One of the major flaws of most academic academic literature is that it's (often deliberately) totally incomprehensible to the typical reader. My hat goes off to someone like Gaiman who appears to have researched the topic heavily but is firmly trying to make the material more accessible to people. It was a similar work by Kevin Crossley-Holland that I read as a child that sparked my interest in the Nordic mythological world.
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Books!
Dec 21, 2019 10:01:06 GMT
Post by Basse on Dec 21, 2019 10:01:06 GMT
I didn't know that about the Edda, I always pictured it the other way around: a writer in remote Iceland, and isolated place where the old religion still hadn't been fully replaced, committing the old stories to the page so that they wouldn't be lost. Although I have no idea where I got this image from. I don't have any proper education in history and the sciences, so I mostly read books that are meant more as popular science. One recent favourite was "1177 B.C.: The Year Civilization Collapsed", about the Bronze Age collapse. And even that one I found to be a bit of a slog at times, even though the topic and a number of the details are truly fascinating.
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Books!
Dec 21, 2019 13:54:29 GMT
Post by HockeySam18 on Dec 21, 2019 13:54:29 GMT
That idea holds somewhat more truly for Eddic and Skáldic poetry (many preserved in sagas), with some considerable caveats Incidentally, one of the main theories surrounding the Later Bronze Age "collapse" has to do with a volcanic eruption in Iceland that clouded the skies with an immense veil of ash, leading to widespread famine and competition of resources that spurred outbreaks of violence. There is evidence for a similar issue around the year 536, when cultures worldwide experienced environmental catastrophe owing to one or more violent volcanic eruptions. Several people in my field think that memories of this disastrous period were retained in the Fimbulvetr of Norse mythology.
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Books!
Dec 23, 2019 12:26:23 GMT
Post by Basse on Dec 23, 2019 12:26:23 GMT
I remember that theory, I believe it's brought up in the book as well. Fascinating stuff. Equally fascinating is it to think that myths like the Fimbulwinter may have been based on or inspired by historical events, mythologized over hundreds of years. It has made me rethink the whole collapse of civilization story found in ROA, which was pretty fantastical. There is a real possibility that I will turn the Gwyndlegard series into a book series at some point, and if that time comes I want to draw much inspiration from real life events such as this. Perhaps, rather than having the whole kingdom collapse in a single cataclysmic day, one could have this be the myth built up over centuries, like the Iliad being a vastly warped retelling of a real event. With Ori/Athalën being a recurring character, one could learn the true story of the fall bit by bit as the story progresses, if I can find a way to tie that to the main narrative.
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Books!
Dec 23, 2019 12:32:52 GMT
Post by Basse on Dec 23, 2019 12:32:52 GMT
On another note, I recently finished "A Heritage of Stars" by Clifford Simak. It follows a similar pattern to that found in "City" and even more so "A Choice of Gods": an open-ended story about life after the fall of technological civilization, and the possibility of rebuilding civilization with different values at its core - in this case human "sensitivites" such as telepathy, communication with plants, animals and robots through the mind alone. Interesting stuff, and actually less cheesy than it sounds like. As with his other books, though, the world is more interesting than the characters and the plot, and it's not exactly a book I would recommend unless you already enjoy the kind of stories he writes.
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Books!
Dec 23, 2019 14:09:24 GMT
Post by HockeySam18 on Dec 23, 2019 14:09:24 GMT
You should read a translation of Eddic poetry. The heroic poems are a prime example of historical events being transformed into literature over the course of centuries of oral tradition and then textualization. Most of the characters and events are recognizable from 4th-6th/7th century figures, but the poems were only written down in the 13th century. There's tons of parallels with Old English works like Beowulf, Widsith, and the elegies, which makes it clear that even ~1500 years ago these people were telling and sharing the same stories, so it's a nice window into that process of mythologizing history that you're talking about for RoA.
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Books!
Dec 23, 2019 20:30:28 GMT
Post by Basse on Dec 23, 2019 20:30:28 GMT
I might someday! I find that evolution of myth and stories quite fascinating. I've also never read the full text of the Iliad and the Odyssey, two other bulletpoints on my to-read list! I remember starting to read the Iliad when I was 13 or 14, immediately hitting a brick wall with the archaic language, and then I never went back.
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Books!
Dec 24, 2019 4:07:12 GMT
Post by HockeySam18 on Dec 24, 2019 4:07:12 GMT
Several older editions of the Iliad, the Odyssey, and the Aeneid suffer from unnecessary archaizing. Part of it is that Ancient Greek is such a complex language that some translators have felt the need to employ archaic forms or terms to represent the various moods, tenses, and inflections of the language...but if you find yourself translating a phrase as "thus as thou spakest", you cannot expect any sort of extensive readership
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Books!
Dec 24, 2019 22:49:58 GMT
Post by Basse on Dec 24, 2019 22:49:58 GMT
From the little I can remember, that seems to have been the case with the edition I tried to read. I may have been able to power through it now, but bashing your head against a text like that when you're 13 didn't exactly inspire me to try out more classics like it.
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Books!
Dec 25, 2019 3:39:11 GMT
Post by HockeySam18 on Dec 25, 2019 3:39:11 GMT
No, not at all. I've recently been working on a translation of one of the Eddic poems, and one of my main aims has been to keep the text as readable as possible while also maintaining the feel (and, where possible, alliteration) of the original text.
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Books!
Dec 26, 2019 22:11:29 GMT
Post by Basse on Dec 26, 2019 22:11:29 GMT
Do send it over when you have finished the translation, I would love to read it! Also, I got the complete Lord of the Rings bookset as a Christmas present this year, so now there is no more putting it off!
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Books!
Dec 27, 2019 16:34:24 GMT
Post by HockeySam18 on Dec 27, 2019 16:34:24 GMT
Will do! I just sent it in to two experts for peer review, so we'll see how it holds up. I'm trying a format where the original text and the English translation are both displayed on separate columns on the same page for the sake of easier comparison. It fits well with the stanzaic form of verse, whereas if I were doing a prose text a verso-recto format would be preferable. Down the road I plan to publish an edition of the Eddic corpus along those lines, but with a massive glossary analyzing all personal and place names, kennings, and hapax legomena from a (comparative) linguistic and historical point of view. That's probably a decade's worth of work, though, so one step at a time
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Books!
Dec 27, 2019 17:13:53 GMT
Post by Basse on Dec 27, 2019 17:13:53 GMT
Cool! It's going to be interesting to see how much of it the original text I understand, if any. I have heard some songs sung in ancient Norse (Wardruna) where I can make out the occasional word, and infer the meaning here and there, but I hardly count that as "understanding" it. That sounds like a massive project indeed! I can imagine that would be hugely helpful and eye-opening for anyone wanting to get into Norse history and mythology.
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Books!
Dec 27, 2019 20:54:18 GMT
Post by HockeySam18 on Dec 27, 2019 20:54:18 GMT
Knowing Old Norse and being fairly competent in Icelandic (probably roughly B1 level), I can understand (reading more so, listening less so) a fair bit of the Scandinavian languages--but I've heard that the inverse is somewhat more difficult...not to mention that the Old Norse poetry uses a ton of words that don't really appear in other contexts.
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Books!
May 14, 2020 19:39:36 GMT
Post by Basse on May 14, 2020 19:39:36 GMT
I actually started reading Three Men In A Boat yesterday, I'm already about a third of the way through. There are some hilarious bits in there, and it's interesting how much of it feels like it could have been written today with just some minor tweaks. Like the rants on reading too much into medicine books and thinking you have every disease imagineable, or getting away from the hussle and bussle of 19th century city life. I got it in a double volume with the sequel, so I will probably get to that one sometime too.
I also just finished The House on the Borderlands, which I also found really interesting. It reads like H.P. Lovecraft trying his hand at a typical Victorian Gothic horror story, with demonic swine creatures emerging from the earth to haunt an isolated mansion, out of body experiences allowing the main character to see the destruction of the solar system, and more. Definitely worth looking at if you enjoy Lovecraft, or Victorian horror for that matter.
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