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Post by Julius CMXCIX on May 9, 2008 19:57:16 GMT
Seeing as the religious discussions thread has gone well, I thought we might try a more wide-ranging one. Not that I have any particular topics in mind. Politics, philosophy, whatever.
I'd like to see it kept above a certain level though. Internet phenonemena can be discussed at AoKH.
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Post by Basse on May 9, 2008 20:06:25 GMT
Israel's 60th Anniversay perhaps, and the war there in general, the future of Israel & Palestine etc?
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Post by Julius CMXCIX on May 9, 2008 20:19:58 GMT
That'll do for a start. What are your opinions?
I generally fall on the Israeli side, especially against Hezbollah. However, I think at the end of the day the two sides (Arab and Israeli) will have to come to terms with each other, decide a settlement and leave each other well alone. Eventually a Palestinian state will have to be formed, and we should begin negotiations as soon as possible. However, the Arab side would have to concede the right of Israel to exist or the area will never be free of tension. Having said that, I don't think the two sides will ever be friends.
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Matt
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The Come And Go Man
Monsieur Mercredi
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Post by Matt on May 10, 2008 1:28:43 GMT
That'll do for a start. What are your opinions? I generally fall on the Israeli side, especially against Hezbollah. However, I think at the end of the day the two sides (Arab and Israeli) will have to come to terms with each other, decide a settlement and leave each other well alone. Eventually a Palestinian state will have to be formed, and we should begin negotiations as soon as possible. However, the Arab side would have to concede the right of Israel to exist or the area will never be free of tension. Having said that, I don't think the two sides will ever be friends. The real problem with the whole thing is the way it was handled in the 1930's. The western civs refused to do anything to help Jews, and really the only difference between them and Hitler is they didn't actually kill them. But when Germany tried to deport them, England, and Canada and France as well as other countries, refused to take the Jews in. After WWII, there was no more time to slowly work towards a Jewish state because of the Holocaust. So the US and Britain just smacked them down in the middle of the Arab world, despite England specifically promising Palestine independence and sovereignty. It is insane to think that they actually thought it might work smoothly. As far as the current situation, I favor Israel. Generally speaking with these terrorist groups, it is almost impossible to distinguish between the extremist terrorists and the mild political leaders. Sometimes I think Israeli policy is a bit on the inhumane side, but the drastic steps the US took after 9/11 show how much more a western nation would react to terrorist activity within their borders. For instance, recently the Jews closed the border and basically were starving the Palestinians out. With no other option, the Palestinian people broke through the Egyptian border to get food and supplies. Excessive on the Israeli side? Probably. But desperate people do desperate things. And I hate to bring religion into this again, but you won't get the Palestinian land from the Jewish government easily. It is promised to them in the Old testament (which the Jews of course follow), and you better believe they are aware of that. EDIT: Being from outside NA, most (all) of you probably haven't heard of Rush Limbaugh, but he is a hugely popular radio show host with an average of over 20 million daily listeners. He is an ultra conservative (extremely abnormal in the US's entirely liberal media), and uses his 3 hour show as a sort of bully pulpit. Anyway, he always says regarding conflict, that you can only have peace after complete defeat of one side. Rome vs Carthage is a usual example, after the last war Rome salted the Carthaginian fields and practically leveled their entire civilization. As barbaric as it may sound I rather agree with the point, that until one of the two sides completely destroys the other, there will be war. Whether that is Israel crushing Palestine, or the Arab nations crushing Israel (highly unlikely due to Israel's military superiority) I don't know. But I find a peaceful solution unlikely unfortunately.
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Post by Julius CMXCIX on May 10, 2008 7:50:47 GMT
England (the UK) for one did accept a large number of Jewish immigrants during and after World War 2.
Not insane, but poorly informed. The British Empire creating Iraq out of three different groups was also probably a poor decision in the long term.
Of course, but I believe, and hope, they will eventually relent. No matter what the Old Testmanent says, the Israeli people are getting tired of war. There are some small positive signs, such as the surrendering of some illegal settlements.
I disagree entirely. Very few wars have ever resulted in complete destruction of one side. War raged over Europe for many centuries and yet England, France, Spain, Italy and modern day Germany all exist and are strong. Generally, peace terms have favoured one side, historically, but in the Middle East complete victory is almost impossible (excepting the use of WMD) so a compromise must be found. I think it will be, just because the people are getting weary and little military progress is being made.
Jerusalem will be a very tricky problem though.
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Matt
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The Come And Go Man
Monsieur Mercredi
Posts: 1,812
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Post by Matt on May 12, 2008 2:40:42 GMT
That is pretty true I suppose. Obviously I don't want one side to wipe the other out, I just never really think there will be peace if both are still capable of hurting the other. Hope I am wrong though.
Yeah I have heard that as well. Unfortunately it was way to late then.
I think the mistakes the UK made when they where the major world force are strikingly similar to the ones the US makes today. Good intentions, but poor judgment. I for one don't really go in for the "Its all about the oil man" stuff you here from the typical conspiracy theorist. I am sure that has its place, but I actually think the US has a lot of good intentions, they just are very bad at foreseeing the consequences of their actions.
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Post by Julius CMXCIX on May 12, 2008 7:09:14 GMT
I am absolutely with you on that last paragraph. We study the British Empire at school (whether we should be proud if it etc) and a lot of what they did was awful or had terrible consequences, but they did (for the most part) think they were doing the right thing.
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Von
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VonCorgev
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Post by Von on May 12, 2008 11:18:43 GMT
The hostility between the Palestinians and Israelis has been going on for over 2000 years. Can't see it changing any time soon unfortunately. That's my thoughts summarized greatly.
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Post by Julius CMXCIX on May 12, 2008 15:33:23 GMT
To be fair, the current situation is "only" 60 years old. There has been friction between every race since as soon as they met each other. The current conflict is the one to bear in mind.
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Jatayu
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Jatayu
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Post by Jatayu on May 13, 2008 15:15:13 GMT
Omg I leave for a week and you come up with this?
I love this place..
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Post by Julius CMXCIX on May 13, 2008 20:00:14 GMT
Aren't you glad you joined us and not Valkyrie, Avalanche, BlackForest or Elite Designs?
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Andan
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Andan
Attempting to design a scenario
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Post by Andan on May 14, 2008 2:28:36 GMT
Count me out on this.
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Jatayu
Stormwind Member
Jatayu
Posts: 1,064
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Post by Jatayu on May 14, 2008 6:32:53 GMT
Aren't you glad you joined us and not Valkyrie, Avalanche, BlackForest or Elite Designs? Bah, do those even exist? I suppose they do but barely. I wonder if Tsunami is active, maybe the Aom section is. Otherwise we're the only real team Aside though, I think joining a team like this reduces post count at Aokh, and makes people think you've left.
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Post by Basse on May 14, 2008 9:01:22 GMT
I know Black Forest's alive, and Valkyrie has morgoth's maps, Avalanche Dantares' maps. Elite Designs is pretty much dead. Tsunami has Impeached's many, high quality multiplayer maps, the coming 19 Years and more. But yea, we're the most active one of the few remaining teams
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Post by Julius CMXCIX on May 14, 2008 9:23:43 GMT
Black Forest and Valkyrie have loads of members, but I have no idea who most of them are. And our forum is by far the most active (remember the days of one post a month, if that, Basse?) Tsunami is still a bit active, but pretty much only for AoM. And our team has the best recruitment policy. Not really, I never did post much. And the quality really doesn't seem to be what it was, nostalgia apart.
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Post by Basse on May 14, 2008 16:04:47 GMT
I post less at AoKH than I used to, but not mainly because these forums are active, but because the threads over there aren't as interesting as they used to be I do. Those were hard, and boring, days for the team Agreed
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Post by Mashek on May 15, 2008 5:18:28 GMT
The uninteresting threads might be attributed to all those n00bs, Basse.
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Andan
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Andan
Attempting to design a scenario
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Post by Andan on May 15, 2008 10:50:01 GMT
Everytime someone starts one interesting discussion, after a few days the thread will just sink to the bottom, replaced by countless threads that are being bumped daily, which those newbies keep posting over and over again. For example, Von once posted a discussion about difficulty choosing, and after a few replies, everyone seem to have forgotten about it. Can't blame them newbies, though. It's their rights after all.
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Post by Basse on May 24, 2008 13:16:49 GMT
The Israel discussion has given us "Learn Hebrew online" commercials
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Post by Julius CMXCIX on May 24, 2008 13:19:18 GMT
Really? Let us start a discussion on "free money - no hassle" and "immortality in three easy steps" and "secret of happiness".
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Post by Scuddles! on May 24, 2008 20:54:10 GMT
Really? Let us start a discussion on "free money - no hassle" and "immortality in three easy steps" and "secret of happiness". Anyone here having erectile dysfunctions?
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Von
Stormwind Member
VonCorgev
Vene, Vidi, Verse.
Posts: 818
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Post by Von on May 27, 2008 9:39:26 GMT
Free Simpsons cursors are also available if you pay a little extra.
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Post by Julius CMXCIX on Oct 25, 2008 21:37:49 GMT
What are your opinions on the situation in Zimbabwe?
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Jatayu
Stormwind Member
Jatayu
Posts: 1,064
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Post by Jatayu on Oct 26, 2008 4:45:23 GMT
What situation?
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Post by Julius CMXCIX on Oct 26, 2008 11:06:26 GMT
Hyperinflation (52,600,000,000,000% according to the Cato Institute), a power-sharing deal on the verge of collapse, rigged elections and refugees pouring into neighbouring countries.
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Post by Morgoth on Oct 26, 2008 19:09:30 GMT
Sounds stereotypical to any middle-southern african country. The west should stop funding those regimes already (and by funding I mean giving them money as "aid". That money never is used for aid).
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Jatayu
Stormwind Member
Jatayu
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Post by Jatayu on Oct 27, 2008 3:03:34 GMT
The whole 'aid' concept is anyway bogus. Which 3rd world country got anywhere with getting aid? It's like giving a man to fish vs teaching him how to fish.
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Post by Julius CMXCIX on Oct 27, 2008 18:19:22 GMT
I am in favour of aid itself. It doesn't make much sense to withdraw funds when people are suffering from famine in Ethiopia or wherever. Humanitarian aid is not the same thing as propping up a government.
This is rather ignorant on your part, you know. For one, the Zimbabwean regime is more familiar with international sanctions than money. The other thing is that Zimbabwe used to be one of Africa's strongest economies, and in 25 years Mugabe has turned it into a nightmare.
I am opposed to the cancellation of third world debt though. One anecdote that makes the point is what happened with Uganda. In 1998 it had 100% of its debt written off, the money this freed up was used to start a war, and now it's in more debt than before the write-off. You don't fix debt problems by encouraging financial irresponsibility.
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Post by Morgoth on Oct 27, 2008 19:44:12 GMT
As ignorant as I am, I can understand that Africa is a hellhole which WON'T get any better any time. With many countries having essentialy warlords roaming around doing what they want, it CAN'T.
The western world should stop throwing their money down the well and use it where it's actually put to good use.
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Jatayu
Stormwind Member
Jatayu
Posts: 1,064
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Post by Jatayu on Oct 28, 2008 3:33:06 GMT
As ignorant as I am, I can understand that Africa is a hellhole which WON'T get any better any time. With many countries having essentialy warlords roaming around doing what they want, it CAN'T. The western world should stop throwing their money down the well and use it where it's actually put to good use. Jeez, I wouldn't advise you to be so bigoted. It wasn't too long ago that the western world thought the same about India, and China. I think the whole trouble with Africa is that it has become entirely Christo-Islamic and thus has no identity of it's own. They are still white man's slave and Arab man's slave.
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